Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 68.90.226.207 Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 11:43 am:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sancho, if you would be so kind as to direct me to your publications/website, and your various global lobbying organization's offices, I'll consider adding my assessment therof to my would-be profanitized life. Otherwise, shut the f-up.
Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 69.207.169.246 Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 12:14 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's (try to) be civil here kids.
Have I missed something? I fail to see evidence of any causality between Kucinich’s views on impeachment and the “work” of LYM or Lyn, let alone Lemon Lime. Has Kucinich publicly acknowledged LaRouche in some manner?
Perhaps he answered a question, or read some literature. Surely, there is “some” influence. Just like the tweeting birds influenced my fine day yesterday. Or my walk down the street influenced, in a very subtle way, the gravitational forces affecting my neighbors.
Please, Charltonrom: Demonstrate some causality, Sir. Where is the potency?
Given the entire universe of forces influencing Kucinich, it seems unlikely that LaR has had more than a minor effect. Kucinich has opposed BushCo from day one.
Where in any of the world's Scriptures is it written that "Thou shalt have publications/website and various lobbying organisations?" Is that the criterion by which you measure the worth of an individual? And notice: it's all TALK. Name ONE (positive) thing Lyndon LaRouche has accomplished in over forty years of TALK - just ONE.
Funny how your hero fails to quote Leibniz' statement, Aus Taten werden Leute. The LaRouche-Riemann method is Aus Schpraechen werden Dinguses.
Either his overinflated sense of self resonates with your own ("I suppose that few have done more herein than I to point out Lyn's topical sins, absurd doctrinal planks, and systemic cult methods") or you're just a third columnist for this obscure American leader of a tiny and insignificant cult of personality.
The sad thing is that you now have more than enough evidence at hand to know better than to think this guy has any influence at all in the world, let alone that he is "driving" any discussions anywhere outside of the cramped living quarters of the scruffy youth he has recruited or the addled minds of the disoriented "boomers" who are loitering on overpasses throughout the country.
Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 86.6.4.234 Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 1:03 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The myth of Larouche's "influence"...
Recently he s developped the concept that "infinitimals" are the greatest power in this universe... So we are invited (subconsciously) to conclude that larouche's infinitesimal influence in world politics makes him the "greatest political power" on this planet. This is just another way to desperately defend the need of the mythical existence of some secret inner elites: their supposed existence vindicates his own existence as a non-entity, an "infinitesimal" elite, a political quark... His "influence" is just a magician trick. It s all about perception and deception, using "coincidences" (that is to make a "connection") which the briefing writer will automatically equates to "causality". "This is not just a coincidence" is a typical mantra of the org, especially the "coincidence" which suits, which "proves" larouche 's infinitesimal power. It s called "magical thinking". An example: I m writing right now: "CAR CRASH", and I know that at this very instant I wrote these two words, several car crashes occured somewhere on this panet... See, I ve got the power!
That s larouche's method of magics for his believers.
Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 1:14 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- His biggest influence, so far as I can sort out, is adding to anti-semitism in the Arab World, partially a money-grubbing scheme for Larouche's part. Hezbollah linked to a Larouche item. The thing is that Hezbollah doesn't need Larouche to help fuel their antisemitism, thank you very much. Hezbollah will link to whatever fits their worldview.
I can easily imagine Kucinich picked up that "Impeach Cheney first" meme from lobbying hordes of Larouchites. But this is a sort of lagging indicator for Larouche, as he now throws himself into an anti-Gore crusade against Global Warming. He was on Dick Cheney back when Bush-Cheney had high approval ratings, back when liberals were a little more desperate and he can echo the idea that a conspiracy is going on with those neoconservatives and PNAC -- which enable him to siphon money from them. Today he's on Al Gore and Global Warming a a time when conservatives are a little desperate, when it can echo the idea that measures against global warming are a plot to regulate industry -- a cause with which he can siphon money from them.
chartron: You've expressed the motives somebody has for entering into the world of Larouche rather well in that last post, but it adds up to Larouche playing off of the insecurities of youth looking at the big, bad world and their realization that, to a certain degree, they've given their identities up to Marketing Firms, also the desire to know more about the world than they do. There are ways of addressing these issues, and Larouche is the absolute worst way.
But he is a "Titan of Output" in the way a writer who pumps out Harlequin Romance novels is one. To the saying of "Let NO ONE doubt his impact and significance." I say let EVERYONE doubt his impact and significance. He has a cult of a thousand youths, or thereabouts, in the United States, who peddle his crap and end up throwing most of it away.
I can go back and pick out points where he held small degrees of significance. A rumor about Michael Dukakis's mental illness dominated a news cycle in the 1988 election campaign. I guess Dukakis didn't much need Larouche's help in blowing a 17 point lead in the polls to lose by 10, but it adds up. Perhaps Larouche has a measure of success in pushing SDI -- maybe. But then again, this is a past era, and at the time the current Larouche crop were busy being born.
To the comments we are basically whining little critics. and Should we try to stop them?
It's a bit of a craps game. #1: There is no stopping Lyndon Larouche, because he has a narrative where he is the Center of the World. Imagine his whole estate being taken away from him, imagine him being thrown into the slammer, etc. He'll write his own history where He Fights the Oligarchy, he'll prop up phony connections with factions of the Oligarchy that are working for Good against the Evil Oligarchy, and he'll send his message out to his dwindled cadre, which is probably good enough for him, ie: He's going to keep creating a Victory narrative for himself. (HECK -- his printing press is gone, and he's running off the Youths printing a lot of stuff for themselves now.) Any desired attempt to "Stop Larouche" needs to keep this in mind -- meaning you have to use your own terms of success without any consideration of Larouche and his 10,000 Hezbelloh link hits.
[continued]
howie New member Username: howie
Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 1:15 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #2: You will notice that xlrcer's recent posting of briefings came from someone "getting ready to leave". There you go. To the degree that anyone here is "stopping" him, there's one. I myself can attest to a small handful of emails from people reading my blog thanking me for posting on Larouche, because it tells them what friends of them are getting into. The 2004 Washington Post article about Larouche and Jeremiah Duggan suggests that if the mother had not misspelled Larouche's name when she googled him, she would have been able to stop Jeremiah Duggan from going to that remote conference which, tragically, he had no physical manner of escaping from. Extrapulate that out to other people who might spell his name properly, and even the act of posting these works fairly well.
Beyond that... well, Dennis King posted that "How to Stop Him" thing a couple months ago. Revisit that, if you want, but if anyone pursues it deeply, always keep in mind the Measure of Success cannot be defined by Larouche and his front page google search for "Impeach Cheney" or his 10K Hezbollah link hits.
howie Junior Member Username: howie
Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 1:23 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One more thing: The Moonies. You know, if you look around you'll see the images of prominent politicians meeting with Reverend Moon. (Jarring is Georege Herbert Walker Bush).
And Fred Newman had that alliance with Michael Bloomberg when Bloomberg needed to gain the "Independence Party" ballot line, which Newman will flog and hold onto for his followers whether Bloomberg likes it or not. (Before that, Newman had Ross Perot).
But at least they have photographic evidence to connect them with these figures. Larouche will claim influence with Bill Clinton. And his webcasts are full of imaginary questions from unnamed Members of Congress. Ergo: Moon has more influence than Larouche.
Post Number: 74 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 1:32 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- shadok's remark about the ontological primacy of LaRouchian infinitesimals is very insightful: "see, yutes, everybody thinks that infinitesimals are as negligible as we are, when in fact everything hinges on both them and us."
So sick it's scary. Good thing only we ex-members read this crap.
Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 68.90.226.207 Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 10:59 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All right: some lively discussion.
A few clarifications if I may. My "should we try to stop them" was referring to Iran, and its get-the-bomb-and-wipe-out-Israel agenda.
If LaRouche and Jeff Steinberg and their "contacts" are right, Cheney and co. are gunning hard to make a pre-emptive strike on Iran.
Should this happen? If it DOESN'T, the trajectory is for Iran to get the bomb and carry through their stated program---which also includes a "world without America," as their president has put it.
So do we strike first?
How do you get beyond the existing discursive frame/trap?
I've tried to poke fun at and puncture some of his purely doctrinal krankeries. But despair haunts me when I think about the future. A renewed Westphalia approach of development, to outflank the trap, may be the only hope. If his mega-international-project War Avoidance Strategy is not the way---what is?
Again: does anyone herein have any strategy for a way out, without somebody getting nuked? If you have, please edify us. Or maybe we should believe it's all just fate, it's all in God's hands; there's nothing we good citizens can do, but tend our jobs and families, and wait?
Obviously LaRouche doesn't think so. I propose that one of the key reasons Lyn is so reviled is a form of envy-driven resentment. He is an egomaniac but he has an impact-- whether on Reagan or Tremonti or Jose Lopez Portillo or the Russians or Kucinich, he has an impact. Perhaps some of us resent that.
And before you lash out: please detail your plan for Armageddon avoidance. Because that's the orbit we're in, as I see it.
Post Number: 76 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 11:32 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There's a constraint as one goes through life called "paying one's dues." It is arbitrary and often unfair - but then life is not fair. That's point number one.
Point number two is to decide what you want to do with your life. You seem motivated to solve strategic geopolitical conundra. OK, that's great, the world needs such people.
Point number three is a plan. The first step is to obtain the best education you can to prepare you for your task. This is necessary for two reasons: (i) you need learn and (ii) in the future, others who will look to you for your judgement will want to be certain that you have mastered the elements of your craft, statecraft, say. The second step is to acquire experience through volunteer opportunities, setting up your own blog, internships, and then those first well-chosen jobs. So overall in terms of learning and experience you are looking at a ten-year horizon to even begin to be positioned to help the world out of its mess. (BTW, the world is always in a mess.) On this message board you have clearly evinced the intelligence and good will that will ensure success in this (or any other) profession.
Contrast this with the LaRouche method: read a lot of magazines, scream and yell, get drunk, imagine yourself the center of the universe, drop out of college, start a cult of young people who hang on your every word and eliminate people who challenge you to be your best, etc.
You be the influential person you imagine this maniac to be; don't waste one more second trying to prop this loser up a la _Weekend at Bernie's_. I guarantee you that the good qualities you project onto him are merely your own. Realize your own dream, and ignore this nightmare freak.
sancho Member Username: sancho
Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 11:39 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, is the world headed toward Armageddon? Neither you nor I by training or experience is qualified to say, so it is at best a doubtful premise taken over from a guy who has been predicting this same thing for over forty years: so don't despair. Focus on getting your own house in order so that you can be a true problem solver for the actual benefit of the world, and not some slackjawed, uneducated, octogenarian onanist like LHL, Joonyah.
Post Number: 27 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 3:21 am:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If LaRouche and Jeff Steinberg and their "contacts" are right, Cheney and co. are gunning hard to make a pre-emptive strike on Iran.
I have heard this already, by more credible sources than Larouche -- I think Seymour Hersh wrote some things to that effect. (Also, rumours of a military attack, with specific dates, on Iran have come and passed -- and there are a number of reasons this may be.) This tells me that Larouche and Steinberg's "sources" are sources available to you and I -- what was famously cited by a Reagan official (I believe) the best private intelligence back in the 1980s has degenerated and dried up. (Though even there it was a little wobbly.)
Honestly: I can think a bit more clearly through the politics of and concerning Iran and come to a more satisfactory conclusion of how things can work out decently than I can with the much more dicey politics of and concerning Pakistan. But, good luck in working out contingencies for what may happen with either and both.
Post Number: 42 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 86.6.4.234 Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 3:59 am:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- sancho s right: the world is always in a mess The Middle east is a mess thanks to the neocon utopian policies (Leo Strauss was a platonist btw...) As a consequence, Iran is emerging as a local power to reckon with. Are they crazy (or suicidal) enough to risk Armageddon? Whose interest? It is a game, a dangerous one indeed. So was North Korea! Remember North Korea? Weren't we on the verge of a nuclear Armageddon then? Yes the world is a mess but thank god not all the political leaders are as irresponsible and utopian as lyndon larouche. So there is hope.
shadok Junior Member Username: shadok
Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 86.6.4.234 Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 5:01 am:
For those who were born before the Fall of the Berlin wall and were campaigning against the Soviet nuclear Armageddon... just this info I read at the time: Oleg Gordievsky, a KGB defector, revealed (I quote) that during a November 1983 NATO exercise, to enable the Western alliance to practice its nuclear release procedures, the Soviets responded to the manuever by going into an "ill-founded panic," since they believed that "belligerent imperialist circles in the U.S.A. are getting ready for war, and are preparing new weapons systems which could render a sudden attack feasible." (ie the march '83 Reagan's "Strategic Defense Initiative", SDI aka "Star wars") As a result of this "panic," Gordievsky claims, on or about Nov. 8-9 (1983), the world "really passed through a war danger." I cannot help not to think that these "belligerent imperialist circles in the U.S.A." associated to the SDI, were also connected to ours. We were all over the place at the time, officially invited to speak about the Reagan/Larouche's SDI. But in August that year, irresponsible larouche wrote an Open letter to Soviet leader Yuri Andropov: "YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO PLUNGE THE WORLD INTO WAR", because of his rejection of Reagan's sdi proposal. Then, in November these NATO maneuvres took place and were perceived by the Soviet KGB as a possible cover or preparation for a US military offensive... Later we were attacked in the Soviet press as imperialist nazis connected to Reagan etc So larouche played a very dangerous and irresponsible game then, as unofficial spokesman for Reagan's "parallel diplomacy". A "war of words" similar to Iran's or North Korea's today. Maybe that motivitated the US authorities to get his mouth shut (that is : the 1986 FBI raid in Leesburg)
Yes the world is and always was a mess, and major crisis occur every now and then. So if the LYM-ers really want to change the world and make it a better place: get some education and become experienced responsible individuals who work out realistic solutions to this "mess". And as a good test: start with your own family.
Post Number: 55 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 162.84.73.112 Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 9:51 am:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LaRouche's "war avoidance strategy" seems to revolve around whipping up anti-Semitism in the Arab world, as in links to Hezbollah, appearances of him and his on Al-Jazeera, visits by Muriel Mirak-Weissbach to Iran to cozy up with the crazies, visits to Sudan (Mirak again), appearances at Islamist conferences, visits to the Zayed Center in Abu Dhabi and defense of it (http://www.larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/030831defend_zayed.html), canoodling with the Islamic Center in Washington, D.C. (canoodling that got pretty serious, as one of LaRouche's main "security" contacts, Farzad Darui, worked for the Islamic Center (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/11/AR2006101101366.html) until he was accused of embezzling. So much for "if Lyn and Jeff and their contacts are right.")
Come on, Charltonrom--this is not a "war avoidance strategy." This is an anti-American, anti-Israeli, Goebbelsian propaganda onslaught. You may be worried about Ahmadinejad, but LaRouche has no problem with him (which I assume you know if you're reading their stuff).
Building up Putin's Russia is not a great idea either, in terms of preserving peace. Of course some in Russia are "taking up" LaRouche's ideas--since all he does is to attack the U.S. morning noon and night, under the guise of attacking the Bush administration.
So, if you're worried about world peace, stay away from LaRouche.
By the way, as to his impact on influentials:
Indira Gandhi told her staff "never let that man in here again" after their meeting.
Turkey's Ozal met with him because he was told that LaRouche was head of the U.S. Democratic Party. Furious when he found out otherwise.
Noriega? The LaRouche people did him a lot of good. They encouraged him in his manic attacks on the U.S. and helped him organize his "Amphictyonic conference" where Noriega waved an ax handle around and raved about war with the United States. Not too long after, the U.S. invaded Panama and Noriega was in custody.
Having an influence on Kucinich? LaRouche is not the one who came up with the idea of impeachment of Cheney. The left has been talking about that since 2001.
Influence on Reagan? Just recall that the SDI was a plank in the Republican Party platform of 1980, courtesy of Edward Teller. LaRouche was a propagandist for "beam weapons," but it's hardly where the Reagan administration got the idea.
Despite Helga's stupid slogan "We have the Patent Recipe," there is no patent recipe for world peace, and those who think there is, are very often those who push the planet closer to war.
Post Number: 34 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 72.225.156.215 Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 11:08 am:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually not only did Seymour Hersh warn about imminent invasion of Iran but Pat Buchanan's American Conservative website was warning about Bush "nuking" Iran over a year ago (go check his website, since Buchanan shares Lyn's hatred of the neo-cons and is infamously pro-Arabic. The world always has crises. Many leftists in the thirties warned about the war against fascism and Communists and Socialists were actually out in the streets battling the brownshirts in the thirties. And yes, the world slept as Spain fell, Mussolini invaded Ethiopia, etc. But the fact is that Lyn made his career for the past forty years yelling about the next world crisis that was coming around the corner that only he could solve. The man is a charlatan. And please study Russian history a little more, you have Putin, a KGB murderer who was probably behind the assassination of the ex-KGB critic in England, and the destroyer of the fledgling democracy in Russia on the one hand, and a resurgent nationalist movement (anti-Semitism in Russia anyone?). Both have been parrotted by the LaRouche organization as "supporters" of his ideas for pan Europe railways, etc. Lyn has consistently attacked any critics of the current Putin regime which moves every day closer to the restoration of Stalinist type control. And of course, even though Putin has brutally put down any type of independence movement among the Chechyens, he is not above being very friendly with the current regime in Iran. The thing I think is, even though the Bush-Cheney regime is tremendously bad and corrupt in many ways, LaRouche will work with anyone in the world, forces far more destructive and corrupt since at least Bush has not yet overturned representative gov't, so press his attacks on his so-called enemies like the Queen of England, ADL, etc.
borisbad Junior Member Username: borisbad
Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 72.225.156.215 Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 11:10 am:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Further, imagine a philosophy that considers Al Gore one hundred times worse than Hitler, more evil than Bin Laden, worse than Ahmedinizad, etc. And let's not forget Lyn's despicable support for the genocide going on in Darfur where he has consistently supported the Sudanese gov't which sponsors outright genocide against non-Muslims and black Muslims in the southern part of the country. That in itself is enough to tell me what type of "hero" he is.
Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 68.90.226.207 Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 1:06 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, we shall see I suppose.
Not to be a last-word junkie, but the current strategic situation feels different; sure there have always been crises, but the Iran (and yes, Pakistan) problem ratchets up the stakes beyond your garden variety Lyn-crowing crisis, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. Neill Ferguson is a thoughtful analyst, here's his take:
My perception comes much more from an independent assessment than just parroting Lyn, who not only understates the Muslim antipathy, he aids and abets it. But I do wonder if this mega-project/new monetary system framework, might be at least worth considering some more. Somebody needs to come up with a substantive alternative to bombing. Having no framework but Lyn's for taking history to the next stage of human physical-economic development---now there's a potentially relative cause for despair.
Post Number: 78 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 1:26 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't get this persistent denial of reality ...
A WISH to stop WWIII does not translate into the POWER to stop WWIII.
TALKING/WRITING does NOT equal DOING.
Interesting that no one has stepped forward to state just ONE positive thing LaRouche has accomplished in over forty years of ceaseless bombast and posturing.
Doesn't that teach you anything? Is any of this sinking in? LaRouche is an impotent intellectual and moral fraud ... have the courage to make something of your own life, as have the rest of us after taking the cult blinders off.
Post Number: 36 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.125.93.18 Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 5:13 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Besides, it is quite possible that the Iranians may take care of the problem of the mullahs and Ahmedinezad themselves given the current eruptions that have taken place there. Chances are that LHL will denounce the demonstrators as elements of a dangerous British intelligence operation.
Post Number: 79 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 7:13 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's another aspect of LaRouche's sophisticated intelligence method: take country X. Maybe one of your hacks hooks up by chance at an airport or conference with a prominent personage Y from X who at the time (1) happens to be on the outs with current leader Z of X and, most importantly, (2) buys an EIR sub. Well, waddya know, all of a sudden EIR starts attacking Z as a British agent.
You think this is made up? Paul Ssemogerere of Uganda was an opposition leader to Museveni. As soon as Ssemogerere started to hang out at Schiller Institute conferences, Museveni began to be attacked in LaRouche publications as a British agent. Others here have cited many similar instances of crass politicking on the part of the World's Greatest Hypocrite since Judas.
Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 3:34 am:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I groaned recently when I saw that Lyndon Larouche was defending the Sudanese Government and airing their propaganda. I think I already said this, but here we have a person calling Al Gore's Global Warming Crusade Genocide against Africans while he pulls a blind eye toward... you know... Genocide against Africans. (A sort of corollary to the "Everyone gets called a Nazi except the actual Nazis" rule.)
boris just posted one of the equations in Iranian politics that makes me spurious that Iran is leading us onto the verge of Nuclear Armegeddon. (And there are a few others, regardless of antagonisms thrown in both directions). There are Democratic Pressures in Iran, have been expressed in the past with Moderate Governments (checked by the Mullahs, naturally).
Since boris brought them up -- there have been Student Demonstrations in the past, disappointing if anyone is actually expecting something on the order of the Berlin Wall falling down or the Velvet Revolution. So... What did Lyndon Larouche have to say about them then?
Incidentally, there are also democratic ("illiberal" as the case may be) pressures in Pakistan, the problem there being that these "democratic" pressures lead to rabid anti-Americanism and radical Islamicism. As it is, the government has one foot with America and one foot against us, Intelligence going every which way, the Pakistan -- Afghan border being no man's land, and the government one modest coup from being in the hands of Islamic Radicals, and then they will have DA BOMB.
Should we now turn to Israel and Palestine and right here and right on this very message board solve once and for all all of the conflagerations in the Middle East?
Answers are complicated. History offers up conflicting advice. And most importantly, in regards to new Crises "being different somehow", to quote Billy Joel, "We didn't start the fire."
I checked back to see if anyone made another response, and ran into what I guess is the most viewed page on Yahoo Answers. A somewhat more credible fellow, Steven Hawking, does a little better job of Crisis Mongering than Larouche:
Post Number: 117 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.196.59.174 Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 2:23 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A question is raised about what ever happened to the National Anti Drug Coalition. What happened to it is what happens to every thing which involves Lyn. A rationale idea of being against illegal drugs become the irrational vanity project of Lyn. Along the way it is used to make as much money as possible via contributions, sales of Dope Inc books and subscriptions to a magazine. The contacts at the card table shrines are called back for subs to the magazine "War on Drugs". This leads to another call about culture and the drug lobby so we hit them for the Schiller Institute. Lyn is hidden like a crazy gradfather in the basement when all of this is going on.
Next we do something very subtle in contacting candidates adn puting a score card in the magazine for a few issues. Of course, Lyn tops the field. Next comes we "boil" the sub list to get money for Lyn's presidential run. If you blow off some people it is an acceptable loss for a few reasons.
-Hitting the jackpot with some big money or loans will more than make up for the loss if some subscribers. Besides, they will be called back in a few months anyways over and over until they change their phone numbers.
-You really in retrospect do not lose money on the subscription you sold at a card table shrine because you never mail it out in the end.
The same method was used in Fusion magazine which had a different demographic base than the WOD magazine. In the NADC lists they were more pro life and suburban house wives so when we put on our NADC hats we were pro life and for the kids. Being for the kids we then yap about the superiority of classical culture to anyhting going on at the time and see if we can get a bite for the Schiller Institute fundraising if they have no interest in politics.
In the end, no matter what hat we put on making calls the result was that in the end we put on the dunce cap for Lyn. Why do I say dunce cap? Easy.
When we call up subscribers for everything we sold they would ask why they have not recieved a magazine or why it is 6 months late. Wearing a Lyn dunce cap makes it easy for you to beleive the story appearing in the briefing about how Henry Kissinger or some new evil start up has sabatoged the Psot Office from mailing out the materials. Instead of noticing that we are raising huge sums of money, 5 bucks a day is going towards labor and money for postage has been diverted, our people believe that some incredible and mysterious force which wants Lyn assasinated to unleash a New Dark Age has blocked us from paying our postage bills.
The same method was used in building up the FEF base and then boiling it to death for Lyn's campaigns. Now you have to uynderstand something here. Lyn does not make the meetings and calls to people in various fields when we did research on things. The intell staff did and they , in many ways I think subconsiously make us look sane. This happened in every sector of work. As you build up a contact base you find that the people whom you are interviewing start to take an interest in your work. In many cases members left to persue opportunities after Lyn met with a contact and proceeded to show how crazy he is. Pretty much that was the end of the realtionship between Lyn and whomever we were working with.
xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life
Post Number: 118 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.196.59.174 Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 2:31 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Out of so many calls you are bound to find similar people who have their own crazy conspiracy story about the world and Lyn is among friends. Lyn is a master at using parlor game tricks to convince yute that he is the unrecognised King of the Physical universe when he really is the King of his own cult. The smartest advice given to me by a close friend in the LC was to notice that a prerequisite to putting your name with Lyn or speak with him at a conference is to be as nuts as he is or to be a former somebody who is now a nobody.
What the yutes should notice is how many of the slugs in the briefing written by Jeff and his friends have this twist where some unamed source tells us "I like the material but I think your boss is crazy". Jeff is busy running his own end game around Lyn and lining up his pieces for a post Lyn world. Lyn is so delusional that he has not caught on after spending years in prison and giving some crazy figure like 11 million to scam artists that Jeff and Paul are the ones who bring in these grifters. Go through the ranks of security and you find quite a collection of people who are "out" but 'in" with Jeff.
Come to think of it, security provided much of the Feds evidence and protected witnesses as well as the never ending parade of grifters to send the loot to.
Post Number: 119 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.196.59.174 Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 6:57 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hopefully this forum will be around next week.
What I wish to show people is something I noticed after I left in the 1980s. In the late 1980s you will find that Lyn has boosted himself up to the same level as Jesus and Socrates. The trial is now the "Third Trial of Socrates" and any evidence of us stealing money and running scams is carefully edited out of the coverage. It is done in a way in which any mentiuon of how we sent our people to withdraw CASH in less than 10K amounts, put it in brown paper bags and send a security guy to Boston to pay a loan shark is something no one knows about.
Nothing is presented to you in a cult unless it serves a purpose. When we were busy stealing the loot we had people read about George Patton and historical figures who did anything to win. Thus, there was no morality present when we emptied a bank account of every last penny and jerked that person around when they wanted their money back. I wonder if in the "Railroad " book the cult has the quote from Lyn to a supporter who needed money that he has nothiung to do with this? Another letter tells a supporter that their problems needing a nurse or something like that is really not our problem.
The cult worked the members to be just as heartless and cruel as Lyn. So lyn really can recreate himself.
As the trials went on and the convictions were occuring we see that Lyn has an endless parade of memos about his destiny to save humanity and how he is the chosen one, against his wishes! This stuff was so thick that members started converting to Christian faiths.
Now what happens next? The Rev Bevel comes in and does a "Convicted Cult makeover" modeled along the lines of what Bevel did for Moon after he was convicted for tax fraud around the same time as Lyn is in the late 1980s. The same MO of paying people to attend conferences, signing ads, hearings and never mentioning the victims or the crimes is now in play. Bevel then makes his way to Nebraska where a Satanic child abuse hoax is running based on a front page headline in the Moon owned Washington Times.
Bevel now makes Lyn to be a white version of MLK using his credentials in the MLK movement to get to many African American officials who may not have read Debbie Freeman's glowing remarks about a Baltimore Senator being a House Nig** for the Jews when sh ran for office. A few members raised questions about Bevel when he showed up in Leesurg. Questions are not what you do in a cult saving humanity. Lyn then issues a memo and/or tells people that Bevel is a genius and if you do recognize that, then you are severely blocked.
This all is quite fascinating as this speech by Moon is pretty much a version of what the LC would hear over and over by Lyn.
The Moonie angle is fascinating as we crossed paths with people who were associated with a Moon financed outfit called the World Anti Communist League. The SDI and the idea of laser weapons has been around for many years. We adopted that once we did our pseudo right turn and ran into some WACL people like Gen Danny Graham and Gen Singlaub. both were praised to high heaven by Lyn and on many occasions we were told that these people would be leading a coup against Jimmy Carter with Lyn leading the way behind the scenes. The coup later became an impeach Carter drive which we recruited and raised money for.
xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life
Post Number: 120 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.196.59.174 Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 6:59 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Boy this sounds just like what Lyn has going with Dick Cheney. Lyn can claim anything abut Cheney even telling gullible yutes that his webcast is what changed history about Cheney. Wow! I have a ten year old who has more brains than yute as he has seen endless anti Dick Cheney skits and coverage on Comedy Central and the cover of Mad Magazine.
Lyn is full of parlor tricks for yutes. Just read the briefing where the LYM proclaim that they were the reason why the Fehmarhn Bridge deal was just announced! The wacked out yutes, living in a completely isolated Bizarro world were born when the project was first announced in 1986
It took decades to resolve issues like financing, environmental and ferry revenue losses to be resolved. All things in the real world, but not in Bizarro world. Europe has a huge network of high speed trains which are interlinked and the yutes have no concept that a Maglev does not run on the shiny steel rails which the German ICE traisn run on. These are same yutes who think that spending a trillion or so dollars for a Maglev to go from NYC to Siberia over a few days is cheaper than flying a commercial jet that distance. I can only guess that the yutes have really adopted Lyn's superior economic skills which buy a 199 acres of prime Northern Virginia land for a few million and lose it for not paying the stinkin mortgage. That land is now worth several hundred thousand dollars PER ACRE.
Since I left the bizarro world in the mid 1980s, I forgot about the cult and how things are done for a long time. I recently reviewed events which happened after I left which explain how Lyn has created a real hard core cult of personality. In yesteryear, one could be be semi away from Lyn by being in the entities like PMR or World Comp or Computron. Move a little closer and you could stay within the confines of the FEF or sometimes the NADC. If you had some talent musically , you could shuffle yourself over to the music group and have Lyn take your ideas as his own . Your reward was to be on the invite list at Ibykus farm to put on a minstrel show for lyn and Helga. I fyou were a 4 legged dog, you ate pretty well I heard.
The same principal worked in the regions where the farther away you were from the National Office the better it was in relative cult flux density. Regardless of whee you physically happened to be, the reason you were there was because in the end, you joined the national Caucus of Labor Committees or NCLC. The collective word used to describe your self was as a LCer.
Once Lyn got out of prison we find a peculiar thing happening. The NCLC is now just a forgotten memory and in it's place we find a continual usage of the phrase "Larouche Organization" or LO. The brilliant Lyn now does what he has done for decades which is to recruit people, strip them of anything of worth, accuse them of plotting against him, purge them, write memos about it and then blame them for why he is not ruling the Physical world.
xlcr4life Intermediate Member Username: xlcr4life
Post Number: 121 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.196.59.174 Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 7:00 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lyn also does something he did a long time ago in the 1970s which is set a cult up based on hatred of age. Think I am kiddding? Find a member who is in hos or her late 50s and they will tell you about how when THEY joined. Lyn was telling that the "68er" generation would create a socialist revolution from the OLD generation. So in effect. Lyn recruited the present "Boomer" members by telling them that they were superior to the old leftists who failed.
Same script different audience yutes. In the transition of the 1990s we find the entities like PMR and World Comp to be the internal enemy, no more front groups to hide away in , no more NCLC but the Larouche Organization. Perhaps Lyn's superior prognostication skills have him guessing that RICO laws may be used against a mafia cult like the LO.
What is left are those deadenders who have no place to go, babies who survived a play date with Nancy Spannaus and a new round of rebuilding by going to college campuses. On the campuses we find that the methods used are right out of Moonie 101 or advanced Krishna grad work. From the getgo the yutes are now LAROUCHEYouth.
Just check out this exerpt from a recent briefing which as an eye opener as a yute meets a Congressman.
" The U.S. Congressman for the area was in attendance, he was speaking that night. I started my leaflet bomb with him, knowing that at some point I would be asked to stop. He must have some how known I was a LaRouchie because he tOLD me he was busy in such way congressman don't dare speak to their constituents."
Sleep with one eye opened yutes. We have more to cover including a program so that you know which grifter friends of Security Lyn has fed millions to.
Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 2:43 am:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think this forum, and all the other FACTNet forums, have been given a lease of 3 months. We'll see.
Nick Benton's recent article focuses in on the "Cult Against Age" equation from his past, seemingly against your parents, really. One of those psychological buttons.
One of the things I've ended up trying to focus on with my blog, deciding it is a way I can be useful with the topic of Larouche, is the answer for that question for that stray visitor -- "What is my friend (or peer) thinking?" Reading through recollections from past members, current members, semi-members, the answer isn't that complicated, often answered rather straight-forwardly or without any self-awareness but given away unwittingly. There are a few categories of concerns and worries Larouche is tapping into, all of them common to basically everybody -- but the net just manages to capture... I guess those thousand recruits.
Considering further, that matter of impotency has a double meaning, and in terms of Crisis Mongering ... the answer to the impotency is the Larouche Youth Movement, dagnabit!
Post Number: 37 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.125.93.18 Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 3:09 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What xlc4life says about our generation is absolutely correct. In the 60s we were told that the "greatest generation" that won the war against fascism sold their souls to purchase a house in suburbia and raise their families. This was kind of the "Man in the Gray Flannel Suit" version of encapsulating that generation. Then you mixed it in with Lyn's attacks on Dr. Spock and how the baby boomers parents created a generation of outer-directed rather than inner directed nincimpoops, except of course for those who joined his NCLC. Apparently, Lyn was the only one who was able to keep the momentum of the "greatest generation" alive after everyone else moved to their new homes in Levittown, NY.
Post Number: 56 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 162.84.73.112 Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 10:29 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Couple this--what borisbad describes--with LaRouche's memorable denunciation of the "greatest generation" as cowards in World War II (says the guy who never saw combat). Why were they cowards? Because they didn't want to die taking Japan, and it was because our parents were cowards (according to LHL) that Harry Truman dropped the bomb--to spare them a few minor casualties (according to LHL, the great strategist of the War in the Paciifc).
Amazing that any Baby Boomers gave the guy house room after he said that.
As to his ravings about the sellout generation--borisbad is right--why did they sell out? Because they came home from years of grueling, hellish war (remember, they were fighting, unlike LHL), and wanted to start families.
Also remember, LaRouche is the guy whose insight tells him that women only have children when they get sick of their husbands, and that procreation is basically twisted and perverse and a sign of corruption, although the broad masses need to do it, because for some reason the world needs more people, even though LaRouche personally hates people and in particular is horrified by children. (also women.)
Post Number: 38 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.125.93.18 Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 12:10 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One further irony of Lyn's heroic disposition that I overlooked. Initially, his attack on the WWII generation was that, not only did they want to buy homes in the suburbs, but that they capitulated to McCarthyism and the paranoic fears of the Cold War. This to me seemed somewhat logical and did help account for much of what led to the 60s rebellions. But later, when Lyn went from being a pseudo-Marxist ideologue to promoter of Reagan and the SDI, he later described himself as an informant for the FBI in monitoring the SWP and CPUSA in the 50s. So this hypocrite goes from condemning those who capitulated to the Red Scare, to being an informant. (I think this appeared in the Power of Reason book when he totally omitted is Marxist background). This man reinvents himself more than George Plimpton, the Great Imposter did. Hope this forum will be here after tomorrow.
Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 86.6.4.234 Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 1:26 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Future of FACNET
As for the future of this forum... there is an alternative solution if it s to be closed. I have setup a similar forum on another server where the old posts on FACNET are being transferred. (same options re subscription, anonymity, email notifications etc but also new tools like search engine and faster navigation)
Post Number: 57 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 70.164.43.2 Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 4:03 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shadok--just tried logging in at the new site and it did not recognize my name and password. Any advice?
Post Number: 45 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 86.6.4.234 Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 4:39 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey I didnt expect you to join so quickly! Thanks! In fact (and i ll make it clearer for the future members) you have to wait for your membership to be accepted (by me in fact). You are notified by email. SO now you are a member! It s not about being restrictive, anybody can be a member! But we dont want hackers do we?
Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 72.225.156.215 Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 7:48 pm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just signed onto Shadok's site. It's good that you had the know-how to set this up. Still hope that factnet continues the discussion board though, since obviously it helps others who joined different cults besides the LaRouche org. and it obviously has the name recognition. Too bad we don't have the LaRouche fundraising lists so we could contact all the people who lost money to LaRouche and his various guises and they could help support something doing some actual good.
Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 66.206.87.117 Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 1:26 am:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That "Impeach Cheney" thingamajing?
I notice that the Larouche tac on "Impeaching Cheney" revolves around some obscure scandal coming from out of Great Britain -- the better to get the British Royal Crown into the mix, with a weird slide on one of the mps who has pushed for a Jeremiah Duggan investigation, and I saw the EIR item flick past me about how the "BEA Scandal is the Thing that Will Break Cheney's Back", or something to that effect.
Meanwhile, back in the world of American politics, and the type of items that American Liberals are foaming at the mouth.:
Persistence did not pay off for some LaRouche followers who were yap-yapping about how LaRouche can save the universe from the Baby Boomers, and how only he can save us all from imminent economic disaster – oh – and yeah – he will impeach Cheney too by the way.
I stopped to point out the Cheney-doings of Patrick Fitzgerald the United States attorney in Chicago.
This lady answered, "Who's Pat Fitzgerald?" ..............
Incidentally, the feed from larouchepac pumped out many many many times "Larouche Challenges Youth: Make a Revolution In Science"
... which I take to mean offer up changes in the wikipedia articles for various scientists to the Larouche framework, and not really much else in the way of "Revolution".}
Post Number: 81 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 2:40 am:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had intended to do a cut-and-paste 4th-of-July critique of some of that "challenge" - but at this point it all ends up as beating a dead horse. Shadok could not have been more prescient about LaRouche's ideological use of the word "infinitesimal" (which LaRouche does not define) as a metaphor for the significance of his own and his minions' insignificance. To a practicing scientist, LaRouche's worship of "science" must appear to be nothing more than a bizarre twenty-first-century cargo cult, so little does it have to do with reality generally, or with science in particular. One would have to have one's head so very far up one's own a-- to not realize that no scientist believes that sense perception alone generates true scientific hypotheses - but then again we are dealing with a college drop out who has pied-piper-like induced others to drop out and be a no-account as he. As the "In Living Color" parody of the United Negro College Fund ad went after showing twenty seconds of a babbling prison inmate, "a mind is a terrible thing to be left alone."
sancho Member Username: sancho
Post Number: 82 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.65.115.71 Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 2:47 am:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- England and the United States enjoy perhaps the highest per capita distribution of cranks in the world at any given time:
The question of who Patrick Fitzgerald is to a LYM reminds me of how the easiest way to detabilize a yute is to ask either questions about the lunacy of the cult or ask a serious question about an important issue's technicalities. In so many races we used to run candidates in we had eveyone fired up about somtehing like the SDI or increasing exports. We looked like fools when someone would ask a question in a TV debate about something like "do they support a change in the PBA pension funding as per bill 1669". Our people would quickly mouth off that "if we adopt Lyn's IDB proposal we would be able to do what needs to be done"
If you asked about an SSI COLA figure you got "Laruche's Export-Import Bank proposal vis a vis the world wide developmental forces who are fighting the British Dark Ages proposal of Prince Philip would resolve this issue".
All I could do was cringe and plan my eventual escape as it became clear to me that this was all a parlor game of Lyn , designed not to work except to make worshippers. Lyn would issue memo after memo stating that there are NO LOCAL ISSUES except the election of him to save the USA and humanity as the world faces " A Thermonuclear War and a depression". This has been the case from the first time we ran candidates in the 1970s to now. You never see how crazy this is until you leave and then see it again.
On campues across the US, students have the right idea. They have been reading this forum and Justiceforjermiah.com along with other sites and go up to card table shrines to ask goofball questions to see how long they can jerk a yute around till the ragged old guy with half his teeth missing deadender shoos them away. Boston has been very good at this recently. In the West Coast they ask the yutes why they killed Jeremiah and why are they in a cult. The cult now tells the yutes that this is all an oepration to deny Lyn his role in saving humanity as the economy collapses around them. The yiutes are telling people who ask questions about the cult they are in that 'Oh , you must have gotten that slander a web site from Henry Kissinger".
If you read the BAE articles you notice how a bribery issue of purchasing military goods by the Saudis now encapsulates the death of Jereniah Duggan. This is typical policy of Lyn in dealing with serious problems. As more legal, human rights groups and gov oficials begin their look at how sick this cult is Lyn releases ink like a sqid. The ink released is really not for the outside world but for internal cult consumption. The issue is not what happened to Jeremiah Duggan or Ken Kronberg based on them being involved with this mad man, but how these deaths are so unimportant and meaningless to Lyn. The members are being slowly prepared to not ask why these two people died or why so many LC and supporters have been destoyed by the cult, but that were part of a world wide conspiracy to get Larouche.
You have to include the British and The Queen in this and you have to include Dick Cheney in this. You have to include economic collapse and you have to include nuclear war. Remember, everything which Lyn and the cult produces is first to convince you to be out there 7 days a week for pennies an hour. Yutes have to be mobilized at all times, everything else is just whatever happens in the news that can be form fitted to Lyn's delusions.
What you do not find from the news which Lyn and the cult is very carefull about is ever stating that terrorist atrocities around the globe are done by anyone else except the British and the Israelis.